Feds seeking seal killer
By Paul Curtis - The Garden Island
That’s the word from Wende Goo, public affairs officer with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s National Marine Fisheries Service.
Unfortunately, the killer or killers of the monk seals probably have some fans among Kaua‘i’s fishing community, who are under the misimpression that monk seals are eating all their game fish.
Real evidence indicates that is not the case at all, said Don Heacock, aquatic biologist with the state Department of Land and Natural Resources’ Division of Aquatic Resources.
Heacock, who has looked at the contents of the dead seals’ stomachs, knows monk seals in and around Kaua‘i don’t eat foods they favor more when in the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands — lobster and octopus.
“They’re not eating he‘e. They’re not eating lobster,” because humans fish for those here and not in the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands, Heacock said.
“Our seals have completely different feeding habits than they do up there.”
Here, monk seals survive on things like sand eels and smaller fish local fishermen aren’t interested in, he said.
Dr. Mimi Olry, Kaua‘i monk seal response coordinator and marine mammal response coordinator, said analysis of regurgitated food consumed by monk seals shows moray eel as a prime food source.
Another common misconception is that monk seals were brought to Hawaiian waters, Heacock said.
He said kupuna on Ni‘ihau first reported seeing monk seals there in the 1960s. The first one Heacock saw was in 1986. The original Kaua‘i monk seal watch program was established by Heacock in 1992.
“Nobody knows when they first showed up on Kaua‘i. We’ve got to realize that these are Hawaiian seals,” he said.
Olry said no government agency brought the seals to Kaua‘i, and while she loves the creatures, she wishes they had never come because here they are vulnerable to the violent or reckless actions of humans and at greater risk of extinction.
She is called on to de-hook three to four seals each year that are snagged by fishing equipment, she said.
Unfortunately, she said, more and more of the monk seals are showing up on Kaua‘i’s shores, as the population spreads out in order to more effectively compete for food sources.
The suspected carrying capacity of monk seals in Kaua‘i waters is around 75 animals because there is not enough food to support more, Heacock said.
Until the human population is educated about these and other facts, there may be more harm done to seals by humans, he said.
“The main reason is ignorance. People are afraid of the unknown,” said Heacock. “They will continue to be ignorant until they are educated. I think it’s very unfortunate.”
He does not condone what he called the “unscrupulous behavior” of the person or persons killing monk seals. They’re “ignorant of the fact that these animals do not eat the same fish they fish for.”
“Do we want to live in harmony with nature, or do we want to dominate it?” he asked. “Education is the key. The war we’re fighting continuously is the war on ignorance. Some people are uneducable.”
In addressing the ongoing investigations, Goo said in a telephone interview Thursday, “NOAA recognizes that monk seals are important to the Kaua‘i community.”
Because the federal investigations are ongoing, Goo was unable to answer most questions, saying NOAA National Marine Fisheries Service law-enforcement officers are working with DLNR Division of Conservation and Resources Enforcement officers on Kaua‘i.
Deborah Ward, DLNR spokesperson, said NOAA is the lead investigating agency because the deaths involve violations of the federal Endangered Species Act and Marine Mammal Protection Act.
When asked the question, why are people killing monk seals, Olry said, “We’d like to know that ourselves. It’s a grave concern of all of us.”
Whether it’s target practice in a remote location where the shooter or shooters felt comfortable they could get away with their actions, vented anger and frustration over the sagging economy, a negative reaction to people being reminded of federal laws in place to protect the endangered species or other reasons, the bottom line for Olry is that she is very concerned whenever she asks a trained seal volunteer to respond to a remote location, because she can’t be everywhere at once.
The seals earlier this year were placed on the most-endangered-species list, which she described as being “red-listed,” as the number of Hawaiian monk seals left in the world fell below 1,200.
Losing a proven successful mother like RK06, the pregnant female found dead at a North Shore beach last week, at the hands of a human is particularly troublesome, she said. There just aren’t enough reproductive young females to replace RK06, she said.
Those interested in becoming trained volunteers for either the monk seal or marine mammal response programs should call 651-7668, she said.
Anyone with information about the monk-seal deaths should call the NOAA fisheries enforcement, 24-hour line, 1-800-853-1964.
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Reader Comments
omg watnow wrote on May 29, 2009 10:18 AM:
If you love to eat fish, then you would know that a biggame fish on the reef varies from the fisherman. For myself, the uhu, kala, moana, weke, palani, kupipi are big game to me. Even the manini, at time I've caught with my net as big as 10 inches are consisdered big too me. The seal in these waters do eat the lobster and to them all season round. They eat the females with eggs. They eat them right off the lobster nets. I've encountered seals eating off the nets infront of Kapa'a, Po'ipu, Polihale. So education is very important, do studies on seals that are alive then you will be educated on what they eat. Educate yourself with the people too and you'll will find out that the fishes that the seals eat are what we eat too. Eels, have you evered ate an eel. Talk about ono. We eat them too. Mr Heacock get educated on what's happening. One thing to educate to the people of Hawai'i is when did the seal become Hawaiian. Just because it was first notice like you mentioned 1960 doesn't make it Hawaiian. Airplane's were flying to Hawaii bringing in two legged species from the mainland does that make them Hawaiian. I Don't Think So. So, Educate us if you will. In 2008, Hawaii Revised Statue [§5-12.5] it became State mammal. But it still doesn't make it Hawaiian. Even the law makers think they're hawaiian. They're no proof that they are, but check you records on how one become NATIVE.
Food for thought. "When does animals become more important than humans? Why is it okay to kill humans and not animals? Obortion clinics kills and minipulates the government for support and make it legal. So when is it time to put HUMANS (Hawaiians since you're on our land) first and animals (for food) last." Years ago a seal was a main menu in a laulau, I heard it was very tasty. "
bjesquire wrote on May 29, 2009 12:37 PM:
omg watnow wrote on May 29, 2009 3:58 PM:
It sounds like you need to be taught a quick lesson. First of all, freedom of speech. Let me continue. Not once I said that "I" own the fishes and animals of the reef. I did state that Mr. Heacock needs to know on what the seal eats and what fishermen, like myself eat. We eat the same things. Secondly, if someone took something that belongs to you or your family by force, what would you do? You would prosecute them, sentence them and send them to jail right. If you answered YES to my question, you need a history leason. Some county did that to Hawai'i and what happened. . . . . . . . . . DO NOT OPEN THIS ISSUE! One thing that I know about you and the people that flew here is you all love the first admendment until it's directed to you personally, "MOVE back to where you were family originated. Don't like my opinions, move." "
omg watnow wrote on May 29, 2009 4:16 PM:
bjesquire wrote on May 29, 2009 4:26 PM:
I. Biology and Natural History
Hawaiian monk seals are pinnipeds, which is the order of marine mammals including seals, sea lions and walruses. There are believed to be about 34 different species of pinnipeds. All are characterized by having large eyes, prominent snouts, streamlined shapes and four swimming flippers which typify the order. In fact, the word pinniped means "feather-" or "fin-footed" in Latin. Although they have successfully adapted to life in the sea, pinnipeds are thought to have evolved from terrestrial mammals about 20 million years ago and continue to retain strong ties to land. Their closest modern day terrestrial ancestors are the bear and the dog. Some biologists consider the pinnipeds to be so closely related to these species as to include them as members of order carnivora which includes the dogs, bears, wolves, raccoons and others. Whichever classification scheme you choose, the pinnipeds can be divided into three distinct families; 1) the Phocidae which are the "true," or earless seals 2) the Otariidae, the eared seals and sea lions, and 3) the Odobenidae, which includes only the walrus.
The three families differ mainly with respect to the possession of external ears and their means of locomotion. The Otariidae or eared seals, have external ears as their name implies. In addition, they have long front flippers that measure up to one-third of their body length which they use to propel themselves through the water. In the water, their hind flippers serve mainly as a rudder or as an aid in steering. On land, the hind flippers are able to turn under the seal's body and provide support, enabling them to make four-footed movements. Eared seals are fairly mobile on land as well as in the water.
In contrast, the Phocidae, or true seals, lack external ears and hear through small holes on either side of their head. In the water, their hind flippers propel them when swimming while their front flippers act as rudders or stabilizers . On land, the hind flippers are not able to turn under the animal and provide support. This makes travel on land rather difficult for the true seals, reducing it to somewhat of a wiggle.
The walrus, lone member of the Odobenidae, seems to combine features of both the eared and the true seals. Walruses essentially lack external ears. At sea, they paddle mainly with their front flippers, similarly to eared seals, although their front flippers are not nearly as large, and their rear flippers move in lateral movements similar to true seals. On land, walruses are able to turn their rear flippers under their bodies for support, and make four-footed movements.
The Hawaiian monk seal is considered to be a Phocid, or true seal, meaning it has no external ears and swims by using its hind flippers for propulsion and its front flippers as stabilizers. Below is the biological classification for the Hawaiian monk seal:
Kingdom Animalia
Phylum Chordata (vertebrates)
Class Mammalia (mammals)
Order Pinniped (or, Carnivora; sub-order, pinniped)
Family Phocidae ("true" seals- seals without ears)
Genus Monachus
Species schauinslandi
II. A Closer Look at the Monk Seal: Hawaii's Favorite Pinniped
The Hawaiian monk seal, Monachus schauinslandi, is Hawaii's only pinniped. It is a species that is considered endemic to the islands. The word endemic means that the species is unique to a region (i.e., is found no where else) and is believed to have evolved there. The monk seal is one of Hawaii's two endemic mammals. Hawaii's only other endemic mammal is the Hoary bat.
Many other species found in Hawaii are considered indigenous, which means that they arrived in the islands under natural conditions such as by wind or by water, but can also be found in a number of different regions. Examples of animals indigenous to Hawaii are the humpback whale, the green sea turtle, and the Laysan albatross. Species that are either endemic or indigenous to a particular region are also considered native, or naturally occurring, to that region.
In contrast, species that do not occur naturally in a region, but have been brought there by man or though human activity are called alien or introduced species. The introduction of alien species can often be detrimental to a native ecosystem if the species are not carefully managed. Examples of alien species found in Hawaii include the mongoose, the cockroach, ants and pigs.
Many believe monk seals got their name from their monk-like preference for solitude; others think that the loose skin around the seals' neck resembles the hood of a monk's robe. Ancient Hawaiians apparently thought neither and named the seal Ilio-holo-i-ka-uaua, which means "dog that runs in rough waters," referring somewhat back to their ancestral history. Monk seals are also sometimes referred to as "living fossils" because as the oldest living members of the pinniped order they have remained virtually unchanged for 15 million years.
Throughout the world, there have been three known species of monk seals: Hawaiian, Caribbean, and Mediterranean. Caribbean monk seals were last sighted in 1952. The species is now thought to be extinct. Mediterranean monk seals continue to survive in small numbers in isolated caves and beaches rarely visited by humans in the Mediterranean. The present population of Mediterranean monk seals is believed to be between 500 and 1,000 individuals and is thought to be declining. The population of the Hawaiian monk seal is currently estimated to be between 1,500 and 1,200 individuals. They are considered an endangered species.
Hawaiian monk seals breed in the remote Northwestern Hawaiian Islands, that portion of the Hawaiian island chain which stretches some 1,200 miles northwest from Honolulu to Kure Atoll. These remote islands and atolls, mostly uninhabited by humans, seem to provide the privacy the monk seals need to survive. Occasionally, individual monk seals will try to rest on beaches of the main Hawaiian Islands, particularly those on Oahu and Kauai, but do not tend to stay very long as they appear to be extremely sensitive to intervention by humans.
Adult monk seals measure about seven feet in length and weigh between 400 and 600 pounds, with females often being larger than males. While at the breeding islands, monk seals feed on bottom and reef fishes, octopuses, eels, and spiny lobsters found in relatively shallow waters close to shore. Although they do not undergo a seasonal migration, scientists believe that monk seals travel many miles at sea for periods of a month or more. Therefore, monk seals must be able to find food in the open sea as well as in the shallow lagoon surrounding their breeding beaches. So much time may be spent at sea that monk seals, when seen on beaches, appear to have green fur. This green color is actually a type of marine algae which has grown in their fur.
While at sea, Hawaiian monk seals have been known to dive as deep as 600 feet to feed and can stay underwater for up to 20 minutes. The reason why monk seals are such expert divers is because they, like all other species of pinnipeds, have developed a very efficient means of using oxygen, allowing them to remain submerged for long periods of time without suffering brain damage or "the bends," two common consequences of oxygen deprivation. Adult seals have the ability to slow their heart rate to a rate of 4 to 15 beats per minute while diving, as compared to a rate of 55 to 120 beats per minute under normal surface conditions. This phenomenon, known as bradycardia, reduces the seal's need for oxygen and conserves it for the vital functions of the heart and brain. Bradycardia develops more fully in smaller pinniped species and more rapidly as the seal gets older.
Female Hawaiian monk seals become sexually mature around six years of age. Mating has only been observed in the waters off the Northwestern Islands and usually in the spring and summer months. Each year about 60% of all adult females give birth. The species is polygamous, meaning that the males will attempt to mate with more than one female at a time. This is the case even though adult male monk seals tend to outnumber adult females by ratios as high as three to one, and indicates that each adult female monk seal is disturbed several times. Pups are born about a year after mating takes place, usually between March and June, but births have been recorded in every month of the year. The female bears one pup at a time, and most give birth every two years, although some individuals give birth each year. Compared to other species of pinnipeds, the reproductive rate for Hawaiian monk seals is rather low. Scientists believe this may be due in part to the uneven sex ratio of the species and the low number of adult females in the population.
Pupping usually occurs on the sandy beaches or lava benches of the Northwestern Islands near shallow protected waters that afford the mother seal and her pup relative protection from the sharks that inhabit the area. Pups nurse for about six weeks. During the nursing period, the mother monk seal will not leave her pup to feed herself but subsists entirely on the energy stored in her blubber. Sometimes nursing pups are exchanged between females. Mother monk seals are extremely sensitive to any disturbances at this time and have been known to abandon their pups when subjected to repeated visits by humans. Monk seal pups measure about 3 feet at birth and weigh approximately 30 pounds. They get much larger, weighing in between 150 to 200 pounds before they stop nursing. Following weaning, while they learn to catch food for themselves, the pups lose a substantial amount of weight, but regain it soon after foraging techniques have been mastered. Compared to other species of pinnipeds, the survival rate for pups and juveniles is high. Hawaiian monk seals have a maximum life expectancy of 30 years.
Monk seal pups are born with a woolly black coat which is shed through a process called molting at the end of their nursing period. The birth coat is replaced by juvenile pelage which is silvery gray on the back and sides and white on the belly, chest and throat. Under exposure to sunlight and seawater, the juvenile pelage changes gradually in color to a dull brown as is found in adults. Adult monk seals, like elephant seals, display an unusual type of molt each year in which the outer layer of skin is shed along with the old hair. Adult males molt in late summer and fall. Female monk seals usually molt after weaning their pups. Molting allows the seals' hair and upper layer of skin, which are subject to constant wear and tear, to be replaced. The new hair which develops is able to provide better insulation for the winter months ahead in the case of the males, or for females, after the nursing period when the mothers have used up much of their fat reserves .
An important way in which Hawaiian monk seals differ from other species of earless seals (phocids) is the fact that they evolved entirely free of terrestrial enemies due to their living on remote oceanic islands. Because of this, they did not develop the need or the instinct to flee from predators. Hawaiian monk seals are genetically tame and easily approached by humans. Unfortunately, this trait has proven to be one of the major factors leading to the population decline of the species.
III. Factors Affecting the Population of Hawaiian Monk Seals:
A. Hunting and Human Disturbance
Human interaction with monk seals, as well as all other pinnipeds, is largely due to their reproductive need to inhabit coastlines. Because Hawaiian monk seals evolved in the absence of land predators and did not develop the need to flee, they often fell victim to the sealer's clubs. In the early nineteenth century, Hawaiian monk seals, which were taken for their oil and pelts, suffered the same mass hunting as many of the other fur seals of the world. They were easy targets as they lay quietly basking on the beaches, and it wasn't long until sealers came in great numbers to the islands to get rich on this new source of quick profits. During this period, thousands of Hawaii's monk seals were slaughtered. Within only a few years, the population had been reduced so drastically that the seal grounds were deserted as the population was not large enough to make hunting the seals commercially worth while .
From the early 1900's until the beginning of World War II, the few monk seals that remained were given a respite from human activity as the United States Government declared the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands a protected area- the Hawaiian Bird Reservation. During this time the monk seal population rebounded somewhat. However, military activity during World War II and afterwards disturbed the breeding grounds of the monk seals again, and the population began to decline steadily. Hawaiian monk seals are extremely sensitive to human activity. Mothers often abandon preferred pupping and haul out areas and even their pups prior to weaning, when disturbed by human visitors. Therefore, in order to help protect the species, it is important to enjoy monk seals from a distance, and give them the solitude they need to survive.
B. Fishing
In recent years, commercial fishing has been promoted around the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands. Entanglement of monk seals in fishing nets and lines has been reported to have occurred somewhat frequently. Some researchers claim that because monk seals are curious and playful by nature that they may be "attracted" to the fishing gear and unfortunately become entangled in the process. There have also been several reports of fishermen, who when are unable to untangle the seals from their nets or longlines, harm or kill them as they eat the bait on their hooks. Therefore, it seems that regulating the types and quantity of fishing that are permitted in the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands could be important to the seal's survival. Not only do non-selective types of fishing gear such as driftnets, gill nets and longlines pose a direct threat to the seals, but, the indirect effects of removing too much of the seal's food organisms from the reefs and waters of the Northwest Hawaiian Islands is not known. Overfishing is thought to have been the primary cause for the extinction of the Caribbean monk seal. Let us hope that the future of the Hawaiian monk seal will be better secured through better fisheries management.
C. Sharks
Shark attack is thought to be a major cause of death for Hawaiian monk seals. This is particularly true for younger seals or those that are injured. Most adults bear scars believed to have been inflicted by sharks. Tiger sharks, which frequent the Northwest Hawaiian Islands, are believed to be the main predator.
IV. Protective Measures
A. Federal Laws and Regulations
Hawaiian monk seals are protected under two federal laws: the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972 and the Endangered Species Act of 1973 (see Appendix 2).
In addition, protection is provided by the Hawaiian Islands National Wildlife Refuge, which includes most of the seal's current breeding islands. Protection is provided for those monk seal breeding islands that are not included as part of the National Wildlife Refuge (Kure Atoll and Midway Islands) through the State Seabird Sanctuary on Kure Atoll and by the United States Navy on Midway Islands. Hawaiian monk seals are also listed as endangered under Hawaiian State law. Violations are similar to those of the federal Endangered Species Act. Fines for violations of both these laws can be as high as $20,000.
In satisfying conditions of the federal Endangered Species Act, the National Marine Fisheries Service, who is the responsible federal agency for protecting the monk seals, established a recovery team consisting of government representatives and scientists to study Hawaiian monk seals and the habitat in which they live. It is the job of the recovery team to review past and present research, to eliminate causes of population decline where possible and to make recommendations as how to best manage the population of Hawaiian monk seals so that their numbers increase or stabilize.
In addition to the measures listed above, a set of guidelines has also been developed for those that come in contact with Hawaiian monk seals. If you come across monk seals in the course of your activities it is recommended that you abide by the following:
* Do not approach monk seals while on land or in the water. They may approach swimmers, divers or vessels out of curiosity, but in no instance should you approach them. This may be considered a form of harassment.
* When it is necessary to pass by a monk seal that has hauled itself on to a beach, it is recommended that you remain a minimum distance of 100 feet away from the seal, so as not to disturb them.
* Do your best to avoid female monk seals with pups, and never come between a mother and a pup.
* Report sightings of injured or sick seals or of harassment by others to the National Marine Fisheries Service in Honolulu at your earliest convenience. The seals will thank you! The number there is: (808) 955-8831.
B. International Protection
Hawaiian monk seals are protected outside the United States through provisions in the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES). This treaty protects the seals against trade in their parts or products (see Appendix II for more information). "
ChewyBacon wrote on May 29, 2009 6:45 PM:
getalife wrote on May 29, 2009 8:30 PM:
You hook a big salmon and when you finally reel it in you only have a fish head because the seals follow the boats around and steal the fish, probably what's happening here.
Not saying it's right, just saying what's happening. "
Kahekili1 wrote on May 29, 2009 9:49 PM:
djrugs wrote on May 30, 2009 1:51 AM:
bjesquire wrote on May 30, 2009 9:22 AM:
sljkauai wrote on May 30, 2009 1:55 PM:
This is really sad to hear people defending killing Monk Seals who are unable to defend themselves against gunshots.
The problem is sounding familiar locals against outsiders, guess what, we are all in this together, we live on Planet Earth and it is not sectioned off according to your race, hawaiian, haole etc.
This problem is about people destroying the environment and the species of fish, animals, marine life and birds.
That is why there is an Endangered Species LIst getting bigger everyday as we keep destroying the precious life around us.
By telling people to go back where they came from is not going to stop this problem.
All of us contributed to over fishing, over killing of the environment just by eating and being alive. We need to protect what precious small amounts of the beautiful marine life that is surrounding Kauai and other places on earth.
Please remember that fighting each other and killing off the Monk Seals is NOT going to solve this.
Protection of the Endangered Species Act and upholding the law for all marine, animals and ocean life.
I know most of you want this to be defended and those who do not, please rethink what Kauai would be without it's beautiful ocean life.
It is here for all to ENJOY and PROTECT.
Mahalo "
dailyreader wrote on May 30, 2009 3:10 PM:
Ignorance, bitterness, and hatred are never the answer. "
omg watnow wrote on May 30, 2009 4:10 PM:
I LOVE IT. . . . . . . The people of Kauai and aound the world love to put words and misquote each other. OMG WATNOW not once said it was okay for this person to kill the seal, not once said I own the reefs, not once said that the seal lying on a beach is fair game, etc. Maybe the shooter shot the seal in self defense. Protecting his ohana because the seal approach them the way it approaches others, in fear. Maybe you should say that I said ate the seal flavored laulau with poi.. . . . . . . . Rumors. . . . . . . don't speak lies, speak the truth like. . . . . . . THE SEAL IS NOT HAWAIIAN. . . . . . . . . no chants, no migration charts, no burn pits / heiau, no historic blood line ties and no petroglyphs. 5 main points to show that the seal is not Hawaiian. "KAHEKILI1" speaks the truth. "
dailyreader wrote on May 31, 2009 10:31 AM:
kalaheo wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:32 AM:
dawg2000 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:52 AM:
The seals are Hawaiian. DNA evidence shows they split from the Carribean monk seal 11-13 million years ago. They lived on Hawaiian islands that have long since eroded under the sea. The were here when Kauai first rose from the sea about 5 million years ago. They are just as Hawaiian as the land you walk on. They were here long before any Polynesians got here. The Polynesians quickly hunted them out of the main Islands, but they continued to survive in the northwestern islands. Sailors reported seeing them in those islands in the 1800's. Its hard to fault the Polynesians for that. I'm sure life was tough for them when they first got here and had not yet established agriculture. The seals would have been irresistable slabs of beef sitting on the beach waiting to be clubbed. People today don't have that excuse. The 1960's is when they first returned to the main islands, the article does a poor job of explaining that. This is not a personal attack on you or your intelligence. Its important to clear up the ignorance because in this case a species existence depends on it. "
djrugs wrote on Jun 1, 2009 1:18 PM:
I quote "over the centuries the monk seal has been celebrated as an aumakua (guardian) and Kinolau (living representative of God) for the Hawaiian people. Their website is kahea.org. Their information says:
Ho'okahi No Ka'Aina A Me Na Kanaka - The Land and The People are One. There are actually chants and monk seals' remains in Hawaiian history along with skulls etc. I'm not sure what historic blood line ties someone may be looking for, but their bones and remains and science have proven that they have been here and in the NWHI for 15 million years and that predates the first migrations from Tahiti. Although the native status is not the issue here, I'm always amazed that some native people aren't more proud of this beautiful creature, and protective. I'm very proud and very glad that Kahea is around to give us some historical information on these animals. I always wonder who started the rumor that these seals were not Hawaiian and why, and why some people are so eager to disclaim them, and for what purpose?
Their protection, under law, should only be superceded by Native Hawaiians and all people living here, being up in arms over this atrocity of someone killing an animal that has been part of our ecological marine profile for 15 million years. They are one of the true sentinels of the sea and should mean much more to all the people living on these islands. "
Fran wrote on Jun 2, 2009 4:12 PM:
You can make all the excuses you want for these sickos who have no problem killing endangered wildlife. Are you going to make the same excuses for them when they decide to commit these types of crimes on possibly your family or friends?
Besides, when was the last time you included a gun in your beach bag with your suntan lotion and beach towels???? "
kaika wrote on Jun 2, 2009 11:37 PM:
joe wrote on Jun 3, 2009 9:20 PM:
dawg2000 wrote on Jun 4, 2009 8:09 AM:
Arguing this is probably pointless, but I'll try anyway. That the Hawaiian monk seal has existed as a species for at least 11 million years is known through genetics. They were in the NW Islands when Europeans arrived. They returned to the main islands as soon after pressure from humans went away due to legal protection. Its not hard to figure they were in the main islands too long before humans got there. You can't rely on Hawaiian history as proof of anything. Hawaiians didn't even have a written language until missionaries got here. All they had was memory and chants, and you know that is not a reliable record of history. Petroglyphs date back to around 1200. Hawaiians have supposedly been here for 2000 years. What about the other 1200 years? Hawiians supposedly came in two migrations, one from the Marquesas, one from Tahiti. What if the Marquesans wiped out all the seals before the Tahitians got here? You can't even name any ali'i from the earliest years of Hawaiian history, you can't tell me exactly when they came, you can't even tell me for sure where they came from. And you think a lack of seals in Hawaiian chants and, oral traditions, and petroglyphs is proof of anything? This isn't about protecting people or protecting animals. People can take care of themselves, these seals are defenseless on the beach. They live in Hawaii and only Hawaii. If they are gone from Hawaii, then they are gone from everywhere for good. Are you OK with that? I think you know that calling the seals invasive is just an excuse so people can not feel guilty about driving them out for a few more fish. Thats just greedy. There are less fish now because of humans, not because of seals. "
bjesquire wrote on Jun 4, 2009 10:40 PM:
iuli wrote on Jun 5, 2009 1:32 PM:
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konabish wrote on May 29, 2009 4:21 AM:
..... NOW YOU MUST ALWAYS BE LOOKING OVER YOUR SHOULDER FOR THE LAW. "