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Letters for Tuesday, March 24, 2009
•Thanks, Lydgate Park clean-up volunteers
•What is the problem?
•Coming out of the closet
•Lessons learned
•In remembrance
Thanks, Lydgate Park clean-up volunteers
Many thanks to all the wonderful men, women and children — locals, kama‘aina and visitors — who helped clean the beach at the Lydgate ponds Saturday morning.
The number of people who came and their enthusiasm and hard work were amazing. The brother and sister team who worked in the pond bringing sticks out before they reached shore and the crew working out on the rocks saved us a lot of work in the future. Also, thank you to the chainsaw crew who cut the large logs into manageable size.
Once we’d filled the dumpster with wood (and it was a big dumpster), Tom Noyes organized the pick-up brigade to take tarps full of wood to the green waste area. Using tarps is a very efficient way to move large quantities of wood with minimum handling. Thanks, Tom! And thanks to all of you who let us use your pick-ups, which made the job go much faster.
I also want to thank John Lydgate, The Garden Island and Dennis Fujimoto for the front page article showing the condition of the beach and asking for the community’s help. We have you to thank for all the new faces we saw on Saturday morning.
Again, I want to thank everyone who worked so hard and so cheerfully to move an awful lot of wood and make the beach as beautiful as it deserves to be. Many visitors thanked me as I was working and I want to pass those thanks along to all of you, too.
Finally, please come and join our crew any Saturday morning you can spare. You were all such great people that I would very much enjoy getting to know you better.
Christine Queen, Kapa’a
What is the problem?
To Director Renae Hamilton and members of the Board of Directors of the Kauai YWCA, a big thank you for giving your voice against stigma of all kinds, including same-sex civil unions (“YWCA supports civil rights,” Forum, March 20).
Your thoughts are those many of us share but have not expressed.
Yes, I too ask, “what is the problem?” What are we so worried about?
Maria Snyder, Kapa‘a
Coming out of the closet
In response to the Friday article “God-less ‘congregation’ planned,” on the Religion page of The Garden Island, if there are others who are interested in forming a god-less ‘congregation’, I would be happy to be a part.
To those who may be interested, I suggest you find and read “The Philosophy of Humanism” by Corliss Lamont. Maybe pick up a copy of the Humanist magazine. I have copies I will be happy to share.
This wonderful group of non-believers are coming out of the closet. In hordes, I hope. The problem, I think, has always been we have had no way to meet and talk with each other. Now, perhaps, that will change. Peace and love.
Bettejo Dux, Kalaheo
Lessons learned
The Superferry issue has evolved to the next crucial level.
As a transportation system, the opportunity now arises to consider how effective measures can be attained to meet the concerns on environmental impacts, carrying capacities of each island, and the extent to which each island is prepared, ready, and willing to establish the coping mechanisms that come with increased traffic, vehicles, and demands for services and amenities.
To merely open the floodgates to increasing numbers of importations (visitors, vehicles and an infinite variety of products) should not merely happen if we are unprepared to manage and accommodate more facilities, more cars on our roads and more trash in our dump.
Alternative choices to the ways in which we wish to travel are wonderful to have. In the process of establishing those choices, however, we have learned these lessons: we must be fair, prudent and mindful of the consequences of our actions.
Jose Bulatao Jr., Kekaha
In remembrance
Three years have passed since eight precious souls were lost due to the Ka Loko Dam breaching. Their memories are still fresh to those of us who knew and loved them.
We would like to thank the person or persons who placed the prayer flags on Kuhio Highway at Wailapa Stream in remembrance of this tragic event and loss of family and friends. Those of us directly affected are reminded daily of our losses and I hope that the good citizens and officials of the county and state have not allowed time to distract them from the lessons learned.
Our prayers go out to the families that lost loved ones and we hope that their loss will not be in vain.
Robert and Michelle Wolaver, Kilauea
•What is the problem?
•Coming out of the closet
•Lessons learned
•In remembrance
Thanks, Lydgate Park clean-up volunteers
Many thanks to all the wonderful men, women and children — locals, kama‘aina and visitors — who helped clean the beach at the Lydgate ponds Saturday morning.
The number of people who came and their enthusiasm and hard work were amazing. The brother and sister team who worked in the pond bringing sticks out before they reached shore and the crew working out on the rocks saved us a lot of work in the future. Also, thank you to the chainsaw crew who cut the large logs into manageable size.
Once we’d filled the dumpster with wood (and it was a big dumpster), Tom Noyes organized the pick-up brigade to take tarps full of wood to the green waste area. Using tarps is a very efficient way to move large quantities of wood with minimum handling. Thanks, Tom! And thanks to all of you who let us use your pick-ups, which made the job go much faster.
I also want to thank John Lydgate, The Garden Island and Dennis Fujimoto for the front page article showing the condition of the beach and asking for the community’s help. We have you to thank for all the new faces we saw on Saturday morning.
Again, I want to thank everyone who worked so hard and so cheerfully to move an awful lot of wood and make the beach as beautiful as it deserves to be. Many visitors thanked me as I was working and I want to pass those thanks along to all of you, too.
Finally, please come and join our crew any Saturday morning you can spare. You were all such great people that I would very much enjoy getting to know you better.
Christine Queen, Kapa’a
What is the problem?
To Director Renae Hamilton and members of the Board of Directors of the Kauai YWCA, a big thank you for giving your voice against stigma of all kinds, including same-sex civil unions (“YWCA supports civil rights,” Forum, March 20).
Your thoughts are those many of us share but have not expressed.
Yes, I too ask, “what is the problem?” What are we so worried about?
Maria Snyder, Kapa‘a
Coming out of the closet
In response to the Friday article “God-less ‘congregation’ planned,” on the Religion page of The Garden Island, if there are others who are interested in forming a god-less ‘congregation’, I would be happy to be a part.
To those who may be interested, I suggest you find and read “The Philosophy of Humanism” by Corliss Lamont. Maybe pick up a copy of the Humanist magazine. I have copies I will be happy to share.
This wonderful group of non-believers are coming out of the closet. In hordes, I hope. The problem, I think, has always been we have had no way to meet and talk with each other. Now, perhaps, that will change. Peace and love.
Bettejo Dux, Kalaheo
Lessons learned
The Superferry issue has evolved to the next crucial level.
As a transportation system, the opportunity now arises to consider how effective measures can be attained to meet the concerns on environmental impacts, carrying capacities of each island, and the extent to which each island is prepared, ready, and willing to establish the coping mechanisms that come with increased traffic, vehicles, and demands for services and amenities.
To merely open the floodgates to increasing numbers of importations (visitors, vehicles and an infinite variety of products) should not merely happen if we are unprepared to manage and accommodate more facilities, more cars on our roads and more trash in our dump.
Alternative choices to the ways in which we wish to travel are wonderful to have. In the process of establishing those choices, however, we have learned these lessons: we must be fair, prudent and mindful of the consequences of our actions.
Jose Bulatao Jr., Kekaha
In remembrance
Three years have passed since eight precious souls were lost due to the Ka Loko Dam breaching. Their memories are still fresh to those of us who knew and loved them.
We would like to thank the person or persons who placed the prayer flags on Kuhio Highway at Wailapa Stream in remembrance of this tragic event and loss of family and friends. Those of us directly affected are reminded daily of our losses and I hope that the good citizens and officials of the county and state have not allowed time to distract them from the lessons learned.
Our prayers go out to the families that lost loved ones and we hope that their loss will not be in vain.
Robert and Michelle Wolaver, Kilauea
Related headlines
- Public Meetings for Sunday, October 11, 2009
- Public Meetings for Sunday, August 9, 2009
- Letters for Tuesday, March 24, 2009
Article Rating
Reader Comments
The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the view of kauaiworld.com.
getalife wrote on Mar 24, 2009 6:24 PM:
" Re; Coming out of the closet
Yes, comrade Dux I agree, we will never be free until we outlaw all religions and the people submit to worshiping the one true god, the State.
Heil mein fuhrer, Chairman Obama ! "
Yes, comrade Dux I agree, we will never be free until we outlaw all religions and the people submit to worshiping the one true god, the State.
Heil mein fuhrer, Chairman Obama ! "
gr808 wrote on Mar 25, 2009 9:47 AM:
" getalife-
Where did you learn this extremism and homophobia (was it A.M. radio and the church?) …where do you get this view that religion will be outlawed? Why are you so threatened by those of us who find religion to be something we chose not to believe? I’m not telling you how to live your life based on my views (unless you try to control me) and I’ll fight you all the way with logic, reason, fact, and clear concise debate…not bigotry, hatred and delusion.
You can live your life the way you like, but remember this country was founded because people were escaping religious persecution. It is a melting pot of many people with many different views, religious and not, with people of many different race and culture. We all have to live together and be tolerant of the lifestyles we choose.
You have the right to your opinion, you just don’t have the right to control what I may choose to do or not to do, if doesn’t affect you!
Aloha-
p.s. thank you Bettejo Dux "
Where did you learn this extremism and homophobia (was it A.M. radio and the church?) …where do you get this view that religion will be outlawed? Why are you so threatened by those of us who find religion to be something we chose not to believe? I’m not telling you how to live your life based on my views (unless you try to control me) and I’ll fight you all the way with logic, reason, fact, and clear concise debate…not bigotry, hatred and delusion.
You can live your life the way you like, but remember this country was founded because people were escaping religious persecution. It is a melting pot of many people with many different views, religious and not, with people of many different race and culture. We all have to live together and be tolerant of the lifestyles we choose.
You have the right to your opinion, you just don’t have the right to control what I may choose to do or not to do, if doesn’t affect you!
Aloha-
p.s. thank you Bettejo Dux "
getalife wrote on Mar 25, 2009 7:55 PM:
" Mr. gr808, when you say "this country was founded because people were escaping religious persecution" you need to understand that what people were escaping was for instance, The King of England mandating that the people only worship at "The Church of England" and the Germans only allowing one religion and so on.
People were not fleeing to have freedom FROM religion but rather to have freedom OF religion.
You are misrepresenting the situation on the ground at that time.
I believe that all the religions of the world are valid, with each representing the spokes of a wheel with one god at the center.
If you are not a man of god then so be it but do not demonize my beliefs, which is what aethiesm is all about, trying to mock, criticize and denegrate anyone who believes.
Aetheism is not merely about not believing in a god, it's all about attacking people who do.
Aetheism is a political movement, defined by things like socialism, one world government, etc... just look at your perfect spokesman, Betty Dux
You will find Christians on both sides of the death penalty debate, war debate, health care debate etc... "
People were not fleeing to have freedom FROM religion but rather to have freedom OF religion.
You are misrepresenting the situation on the ground at that time.
I believe that all the religions of the world are valid, with each representing the spokes of a wheel with one god at the center.
If you are not a man of god then so be it but do not demonize my beliefs, which is what aethiesm is all about, trying to mock, criticize and denegrate anyone who believes.
Aetheism is not merely about not believing in a god, it's all about attacking people who do.
Aetheism is a political movement, defined by things like socialism, one world government, etc... just look at your perfect spokesman, Betty Dux
You will find Christians on both sides of the death penalty debate, war debate, health care debate etc... "
getalife wrote on Mar 25, 2009 8:17 PM:
" BTW, Mr. getalife is in favor of civil unions, but not as a stepping stone to gay marriage, not as a sneaky backdoor way to get gay marriage, but just as a civil union.
Mr. getalife is involved in a situation that could benefit from a civil union.
Mr. getalife can walk the walk and talk the talk, if it is good enough for me, it's good enough for the gays.
I am not a hypocrite (in this regard) "
Mr. getalife is involved in a situation that could benefit from a civil union.
Mr. getalife can walk the walk and talk the talk, if it is good enough for me, it's good enough for the gays.
I am not a hypocrite (in this regard) "
gr808 wrote on Mar 26, 2009 11:52 AM:
" getalife-
“you need to understand that what people were escaping was for instance, The King of England mandating that the people only worship at "The Church of England” and the Germans only allowing one religion and so on”
---So that isn’t persecution? Forcing people to worship at one church or state acceptance of only one religion, it fits my definition of persecution. What am I missing?
“People were not fleeing to have freedom FROM religion but rather to have freedom OF religion”
---I never said they were fleeing to have freedom from religion, I said they were escaping religious persecution.
“You are misrepresenting the situation on the ground at that time”
---No, you are…currently.
“I believe that all the religions of the world are valid, with each representing the spokes of a wheel with one god at the center”
---You are entitled to your beliefs…I stated that. Where did I say that you weren’t?
“If you are not a man of god then so be it but do not demonize my beliefs, which is what aethiesm is all about, trying to mock, criticize and denegrate anyone who believes”
---No, atheism (spelling corrected) is not what and how “you” define it. Where was I demonizing you? I did not mock you…if so, how? I was critical…but not criticizing. How did I denigrate (spelling corrected) you? I believe you did this yourself with the “Heil mein fuhrer, Chairman Obama !” statement, but that’s just my opinion (which I gave no previous mention).
“Aetheism is not merely about not believing in a god, it's all about attacking people who do”
---Wrong…some atheists (spelling corrected again) do attack people, as do all types of people (not just atheists) who are not in control of themselves. I did not “attack” you…I shared my opinion.
“Aetheism is a political movement, defined by things like socialism, one world government, etc... just look at your perfect spokesman, Betty Dux”
---Again…your definition of atheism (maybe you chose to spell it that way is because it is your own new word) is something you chose to create to fit your argument.
Here’s the true definition;
Main Entry: athe•ism
Pronunciation: \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date: 1546
1-archaic : ungodliness , wickedness (definition of archaic = primitive)
2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity (current definition used today)
“You will find Christians on both sides of the death penalty debate, war debate, health care debate etc...”
---and you will find atheists on both sides of those debates as well…what’s your point?
Aloha- "
“you need to understand that what people were escaping was for instance, The King of England mandating that the people only worship at "The Church of England” and the Germans only allowing one religion and so on”
---So that isn’t persecution? Forcing people to worship at one church or state acceptance of only one religion, it fits my definition of persecution. What am I missing?
“People were not fleeing to have freedom FROM religion but rather to have freedom OF religion”
---I never said they were fleeing to have freedom from religion, I said they were escaping religious persecution.
“You are misrepresenting the situation on the ground at that time”
---No, you are…currently.
“I believe that all the religions of the world are valid, with each representing the spokes of a wheel with one god at the center”
---You are entitled to your beliefs…I stated that. Where did I say that you weren’t?
“If you are not a man of god then so be it but do not demonize my beliefs, which is what aethiesm is all about, trying to mock, criticize and denegrate anyone who believes”
---No, atheism (spelling corrected) is not what and how “you” define it. Where was I demonizing you? I did not mock you…if so, how? I was critical…but not criticizing. How did I denigrate (spelling corrected) you? I believe you did this yourself with the “Heil mein fuhrer, Chairman Obama !” statement, but that’s just my opinion (which I gave no previous mention).
“Aetheism is not merely about not believing in a god, it's all about attacking people who do”
---Wrong…some atheists (spelling corrected again) do attack people, as do all types of people (not just atheists) who are not in control of themselves. I did not “attack” you…I shared my opinion.
“Aetheism is a political movement, defined by things like socialism, one world government, etc... just look at your perfect spokesman, Betty Dux”
---Again…your definition of atheism (maybe you chose to spell it that way is because it is your own new word) is something you chose to create to fit your argument.
Here’s the true definition;
Main Entry: athe•ism
Pronunciation: \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date: 1546
1-archaic : ungodliness , wickedness (definition of archaic = primitive)
2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity (current definition used today)
“You will find Christians on both sides of the death penalty debate, war debate, health care debate etc...”
---and you will find atheists on both sides of those debates as well…what’s your point?
Aloha- "
getalife wrote on Mar 30, 2009 3:55 PM:
" Mr.gr808,
Let me try again to explain it.
Yours is basically a rant against religion, and you go on to say that people came to America to escape religious persecution.
You are insinuating that people were forced to worship and believe in god.
What I am saying is that people were actually escaping religious persecution in the form of being allowed to practice only one religion.
People came to America not because they were being forced to worship but rather they wanted to practice a different religion than the one mandated by the government.
If you lived in England for example and you were an atheist and didn't want to go to church, no one was forcing you to go, but if you were a catholic and wanted to have a Catholic church this is what was not allowed.
And please don't start with the spelling nazi business, it's silly and petty, just stick to the argument. "
Let me try again to explain it.
Yours is basically a rant against religion, and you go on to say that people came to America to escape religious persecution.
You are insinuating that people were forced to worship and believe in god.
What I am saying is that people were actually escaping religious persecution in the form of being allowed to practice only one religion.
People came to America not because they were being forced to worship but rather they wanted to practice a different religion than the one mandated by the government.
If you lived in England for example and you were an atheist and didn't want to go to church, no one was forcing you to go, but if you were a catholic and wanted to have a Catholic church this is what was not allowed.
And please don't start with the spelling nazi business, it's silly and petty, just stick to the argument. "
gr808 wrote on Apr 1, 2009 11:45 AM:
" Let me try to explain it-
No…I’m not ranting against religion…I’m saying that the State should not be involved with religious dogma and law.
I am not insinuating that people were “forced to worship and believe”…I’m saying State sponsored religion is wrong in any country professing freedom.
Sure…I believe that religious faith is a mental disorder…If I say “I pray to flying rabbits and they talk to me, answer my prayers, perform miracles and created everything” I would be considered INSANE in any public forum….but change that to god and Jesus and it’s accepted.
Where’s the logic?
You can believe what you want (it’s a “FREE” country) and I’m not trying to stop you…just don’t try to control my behavior (thru State or Federal law) based on what I see as insane and delusional.
Aloha- "
No…I’m not ranting against religion…I’m saying that the State should not be involved with religious dogma and law.
I am not insinuating that people were “forced to worship and believe”…I’m saying State sponsored religion is wrong in any country professing freedom.
Sure…I believe that religious faith is a mental disorder…If I say “I pray to flying rabbits and they talk to me, answer my prayers, perform miracles and created everything” I would be considered INSANE in any public forum….but change that to god and Jesus and it’s accepted.
Where’s the logic?
You can believe what you want (it’s a “FREE” country) and I’m not trying to stop you…just don’t try to control my behavior (thru State or Federal law) based on what I see as insane and delusional.
Aloha- "
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66porkchop wrote on Mar 24, 2009 6:13 AM: